Saturday, January 2, 2010

What Do You Mean You "Don't Like Female Fronted Bands"?

On our way home to Lexington from Louisville yesterday, Ondine and I were listening to 100.5 Gen X Radio. We were shouting predictions of who we thought the DJ would spin next.

"Stone Temple Pilots!"

"No, definitely Collective Soul."

Then we would "ah" to one another when C + C Music Factory would start in.

Inevitably this spurred a dialogue over nostalgia and what we deemed "classics" and what were simply "one-hit-wonders". It wasn't long however before the feminists within us began breaking down the Top 40 lists of the nineties and examined just how many of these bands were female fronted. We wanted to hear some Tracy Bonham, Hell we would have taken Edie Brickell but the station continued with its male dominant playlist and we continued breaking down this paradigm.

It is pretty clear to both of us that bands fronted by female vocalists are simply not approached or delivered in the same way that male dominant bands are. For instance, can you think of any Top 40 female artist that hasn't had to make her sexual prowess a part of her persona? Or at the very least (such as in the cases of Hilary Duff and Miley Cyrus) had it attacked? This while bands like Cake and The Toadies get to just focus on being cool and not have to worry about their weight or thier wardrobes. Although I must note that part of this conversation was spurred while discussing Silverchair's frontman Daniel Johns who developed anorexia nervosa at the height of the band's career.

And so I was reminded of a conversation I had with my brother, Nick a long time ago when I was 19 and he was 17. Nick is a very gifted singer and a thoughtful mind - someone whose opinion I have always held in high regard. A late bloomer to the talents of Ani DiFranco, I became absolutely immersed in her discography upon my first year at college. Being blown away, I wanted to share her sound with Nick. We were in my car when I slipped in "Evolve" and to my surprise, Nick did not dig it. When I asked why, he said something that took me by surprise and mildly offended me: "You know, I just don't like girl music. I mean, I just don't like female fronted bands." I said, "What do you mean you 'don't like female fronted bands'?" He shrugged and said, "I dunno their music is always, I dunno, corny to me or something." I can't recall how the rest of that conversation went and I didn't hate my brother for what he said, because in the end I still do value his opinion and in remembering this dialogue and relaying it back to Ondine, I found that men in her life had expressed the same sentiment.

I think this phenomenon is worth analyzing - don't you? What is it exactly that makes men in our culture not take female dominant music seriously? I know this is a loaded question and I know most of us will have the same answers, but lets really dig on this guys. Share with us conversations you have had with men on this topic and tell us why you think this is so.

Also, to wrap this up, De Las Ondas had a great suggestion for me to list Lexington bands that are female fronted. Please feel free to add ones that I miss (past bands count also):

The Rough Customers
Spooky Qs
Emily Hagihara
Blind Corn Liquor Pickers
Coralee and the Townies
Laloux
Saraya Brewer (DJ)
Ara
Eyes and Arms of Smoke
Beyond Dark Hills
City Mouse
Little Noodles
The Dialectics
Chrissy Foster
Hotbox
Miss Kitty and her Hotdogs
Little Miss Tammy Smith
Total Abuse
Tense Kids
Ford Theatre Reunion
Smuttynose

I didn't provide links because my computer is acting real slow and it was taking me a while. Y'all know how to Google!

-Jackson

12 comments:

eliasoforange said...

i just discovered the female fronted bands make up about 10% of my music collection! how frustrating! the big presence of female artists in my collection is found in classical music. i have a lot of recordings by female performers (instrumentalists, singers) and it seems that there is just more opportunity in classical music for females to perform. that being said, the field is innately classist because of the high entry cost of equipment and education. females seem to have more opportunities in folk music as well. it's just sad that in the mainstream music that reaches the widest audience, females don't have much of a voice at all...

Unknown said...

i know when i would play joanna newsom, portishead or cat power in the kitchen at the mish, it would quickly be turned off to something more "masculine."
as i guy, i think a lot of guys feel that since most music is based on the performer's emotions, and this performer is female, they must be female emotions and to identify with them (enjoyment comes from an ability to identify with i think), that must mean they have feminine emotions.
maybe?

Unknown said...

In my own opinion, I simply don't care for the range and style of most female vocalists in musical styles I enjoy. I like classical voices, or the old-style country voices. The throaty DiFranco, Morissette, et al style turns me right off.
But that's purely an aesthetic thing. I can't stand their analogous male counterparts, either.
I think there's a social commentary to be made on the prevalence and preferred styles of female vocalists; namely, that they generally only become big when their voices drip with sex or overwrought emotion rather than sincere talent or unique style.
But to criticize someone as a kind of misogynist for not liking the female voice enough to have a sizeable portion of their collection be lead by females strikes me a specious. It is irrelevant to the preference of the ear what the gender is, only whether the person enjoys it. That, being an unconsciously created decision, cannot be an act of misogyny.

Now if they don't listen to girl music simply because they don't like women and don't want to "support the damn fem'nists wearin' pants and getting in front of men and bein' powerful" that's a different story.

Katie said...

For the most part, music serves as an avenue to express emotions, opinions, or emotions about opinions. And, as emotions go, women's are generally less valued and through many avenues, ridiculed. Ditto on opinions.

From the early designations of histeria to sitcoms about slow, non-expressive males, we have gender-based emotional expectations.

And it relates back to music through a mindset like:

Women have so many emotions that none of them are as serious as the ones men feel.

And I think this is largely subconscious. And, for the sake of time, oversimplified, but still the basic idea.

There is absolutely room for aesthetic preference but I don't think that our senses are well-oiled machines that work outside of our socialization.

Katie said...

I can't remember a time in my life where I specifically paid importance to the gender of the bands/musicians I listened to. I can't say that a male fronted band would be more relatable or even that a female fronted band would be. I agree with NaiveCynic in that "It is irrelevant to the preference of the ear what the gender is." That being said, I love loads of female fronted bands and cannot say that the "emotions" they portray in the their music sways me either way.

Meracle Whip said...

Someone once told me “ Women cannot play music because music is based on math.”

Gender socializing in the U.S. dictates women to be submissive or seductive or hysterical. Also there is a prevailing judgment that women cannot be technical or use reason or have fortitude of character. People of all genders- not just men- view these ideas as facts.

Gender socializing affects both the creation and the processing of music.

If there were gender balance in the popular culture music industry how would it be presented by the media? Would some musicians be referred to as “girl rockers”? Would it be hard to listen to “girl rockers” if you were socialized to feel emasculated by the experience if you enjoyed it? Would it be hard to be a “girl rocker” if you do not receive serious consideration or equal opportunity as a technical musician?

Add The Dangels to your list- circa 2002

Natasha said...

This bothers me, too. It first bothered me when I noticed that the vast majority of all the artists I listened to were composed of four (white) males.

I've since been introducing my CD collection to hip hop, beginning to understand how traditionally oppressed groups can give powerful critiques of mainstream culture.

People of color and women often have no choice but to serve this role if they are to be taken seriously as an authentic voice for their community.

As a woman, and as an aspiring "frontwoman," I have several times resolved to listen to more female artists. Always a huge Fiona Apple fan, I've discovered in recent years and months the genius of:

Portishead, Amadou and Mariam, MIA, PJ Harvey, The Breeders, Mazzy Star, Cat Power, The Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Joanna Newsom, and many others.

Embarrassingly, I feel like I used to not take female artists as seriously as men, even relating to the emotional lyrics of male artists, as if a woman's emotive lyrics would just be expected and therefore more dull than, say, Elliott Smith, wearing his heart on his sleeve. It's almost as though we validate a male's lyrics and expressivity more than women, and in the patriarchal tradition, would prefer a woman to keep quiet, or just say the things men want to hear (and wear the things they want to see).

We take male artists more seriously because we take men more seriously as a society.

But, on the bright side, this all leaves an exciting space open for women to explore alternative avenues of expressing themselves in music.

Indeed, maybe it is not fair that we can't occupy the same space as a man in a band, but the challenge to break creative boundaries is there for every single female artist in a way that it is not for men.

The answer, I think, is always to just know yourself and be yourself. An audience listening for authenticity will get it. And the rest will miss out.

Interesting topic; rock on, ladies!

Love,
Natasha

Jackson said...

First of all, I would like to thank those who have commented thus far - this is what this blog is about and I'm glad to see such an interesting thread.

To Cynic and Katie #2, I also tend to not to let my opinions about the aesthetics of music be swayed by the gender of the members, however I think it is important for the sake of this conversation to also draw from experiences outside of your own frame of reference. Cynic, I am sure that you are not misogynistic, and this blog is not meant to attack males. As I stated in the blog, this topic stemmed from experiences I and others have had where a man has specifically mentioned he did not like female fronted bands for reasons that were rooted in a subconscious stereotype.

I just want to put that out there so as not to confuse anyone on why I wrote this blog - It is a fact in our society that there is a huge difference in the way that female musicians are received versus males. It is sometimes very easy for us to invalidate these kinds of issues by not looking at the big picture and strictly speaking from our own experiences. Our experiences are important and I value everyone's but lets not make that the reason we become blind to societal oppressions.

Jackson said...

***THIS POST WAS CONTRIBUTED BY RUSSELL VIA FACEBOOK***

Personally I have an affinity for female fronted bands. Specifically S-K, YYY, The Kills, Trailer Bride, Heartless Bastards, detroit cobras, blond redhead, the gossip, etc.

I have been told by people, male and female alike, that their distaste for some female fronted rock/punk bands is that they all fall into a "stereo type" of trying to fit into a male dominated industry with put on swagger and attitude. Either that, or they "dislike the sound of their voice" which is often likened to a cat strangling.

Or as a very talented musician I know once remarked about S-K, "why can't they tune their guitars" ... See More

my response, "seriously, they're tuned, that's intentional."

friend, "oh, thats even worse"

this from a guy who loves the who, who were the first band to intentionally put feedback on an album.

I also know a woman who both hates Corrin Tucker's Vocals and swears up and down to love Rush...

now personally i would put the guitar riffs on One Beat against any others written that year. But the concept that a woman who is doing anything - music or otherwise - that is considered "aggressive" is to be viewed as somehow untrue or fake is deeply ingrained in society, in both men and women alike, and many times subconsciously

and I find it funny that many of these peoples favorite bands include a great many male artists who actually sound like women when they sing and put on emotion and sensitivity.

Bands i would pay to have beaten in alleyways... I'm looking at you James Blunt ( is this my own subconscious prejudice?)

But we all adore david bowie, and he counts as both...
right?

boomboomBOOM said...

Well, I'd say a good chunk of my music collection is female-fronted (you can probably blame Dale Perdue for that - and for those that don't know, he's a friend of mine that used to do a girl rock show on WRFL).

Ignoring the chauvinists and general idiots out there, I think there are three main reasons why people dislike female fronted music:

1) They have only been exposed to lady musicians as vapid sex objects.

I'm not one for the mainstream, sex-driven female pop music; not because it's pop (I love pop) and not because it's sex-driven (sexy music is fine), but because it's fake and there's no music there. They aren't selling you sexy music with pop hooks, they're selling you sex and pop hooks. I don't think there's much use talking about that.

2) They immediately assume that female-fronted means feminist loud-speaker.

There are musicians out there who are soap-boxing for their beliefs, including feminism, and I can understand how that bothers some people. If a belief is all someone's got going for them, they're not going to be of interest to folks like me that are looking for entertainment and art (and not the meaning of art, but the mode and method - songwriting, etc). What I think people confuse, however, is that if an artist is outspokenly feminist (or gay, or politically leftist, or whatever), then that's all they are - which is, of course, not true. Someone like Ani Difranco has a lot to say about a lot of things. I personally don't give a shit. I often care about the causes, and I often agree, but I listen to music for a very different reason. Happily, though, Ani has more to offer than just causes; she's a good music, and a solid songwriter. That's good enough for me, but I can see how people can be miss the music for the cause.

boomboomBOOM said...

3) They have not been exposed (or don't want to be exposed) to different things.

I think this is a big deal. Rock 'n' roll and its offspring have all been dominated by men for decades. In fact, it's been dominated by a very specific male persona (a weird mix of sensitive and swagger, slight androgyny meeting sexual posturing, gritty and powerful). Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of old fashioned male rock. It's a solid persona, it's a fine method to create a song - that's one of the several reasons why we've seen so much of it. That being said, it threatens many people to hear music where the performer has a different look or feel (whether that is their actual lifestyle or beliefs, or whether it is blatantly a persona is of no consequence). It's not just female fronted music; the people who don't like the girl rock are the same people who would hate bands like the Blood Brothers (male fronted, but musically jarring with a vocalist who sounds like a three-year-old girl throwing a tantrum) or Antony and the Johnsons (transgender front-man with a high, soul-inspired voice who writes really downbeat, melodramatic but often beautiful songs). These people are threatened by any view or persona that isn't comfortable to them, including legitimate masculinity (I don't think mainstream music provides any better a view of masculinity than it does of femininity - I would hate to think that Nickelback is a representation of my gender).

For me, gender and sexual identity is just another factor of a person that may or may not enter into their music. Take, for instance, women like Kaki King or Carla Kihlstedt (violinist and vocalist for Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, 2 Foot Yard, Tin Hat Trio, Book of Knots, Tom Waits, and 50,000 more). They're consummate musicians, highly talented and focused. The fact that they are female is essentially inconsequential. Or take, for instance, Katherine Katz, who does vocals for the grindcore band Agoraphobic Nosebleed. The fact that she is female certainly has an effect on the music (it makes a line like "I don't want to face fuck you, I want to strangle you with my dick" hit harder and mean something more than the obvious), but you could hardly call her traditionally feminine, vocally (you could barely call her human, vocally). On the other hand, there are bands like Bikini Kill or The Sick Lipstick who, to me, are very much aware and very much linked to their gender. In short, while your physical sex may influence your vocal range and your gender identity may influence your musical sensibilities, that has no bearing on the final product because the final product must be judged separate from it's creator, and gender only matters if it can be maintained as part of that product once separated.

Anonymous said...

First off, what about the blues? I couldn't imagine music without the voices of those amazing women.

It wasn't until I really started listening to female fronted bands that I realized that I could do that too! Bands like X, Hissyfits, Bikini Kill, Cat power, Sleater Kinny, Bratmobile, changed my life. They all influenced a more personal experience with music that I hadn't had before. Kim Deal of the Pixies stole my heart and made me want to be the bassist I am today.

Perhaps female fronted bands seem simplistic to some, but without them I know personally I wouldn't be the same musician. The existence of those bands (and every band we've listed) have only given hope to other artists (of any gender). I think women can only be liberated of those boundaries when we reinforce our own standards of music, release our own music, start our own companies and take what we consider a 'male dominated' atmosphere- and make it our own..

And also, some of the most distinguished musicians I've ever met are bluegrass players that I am proud to call family members. Anyone who "doesn't listen to female fronted music" because of some personal bias is definitely missing out on a huge part of music history that has created the sound we have today.